Brisket excitement!

[ChubbyBadnews]

Recieved a bag of Jans Rub in the post this morning (Thanks very much Patrick!).

Jumped straight in to the car and off to the butchers I went. Returned with a brisket weighing in at around 7lb.

Rubbed it all over with Jans Rub, wrapped it and put it into the fridge for an overnight rest. Will be applying a wet rub of Cider vinegar, Jans Rub and mustard tomorrow and putting it back in the fridge overnight.

Going to give it a long slow smoke on Wednesday. I reckon 225' for 10 hours with a further 3 wrapped and resting in foil.

A quick question, if I may? Would you smoke for the full 10 hours (or however long it takes)? I was thinking of smoking it for the full amount of time it takes and leaving the vent fully open.


Any advice is much appreciated.

Thanks

Barry :)

[Salmonsmoker]

Barry,
Once the meat reaches 140F it stops accepting smoke. Anything after is wasted wood.

[ChubbyBadnews]

Excellent. Thanks for that  8)

Looking forward to sharing the pics.

[SiFumar]

Oh you gunna love that Jan's rub!

[classicrockgriller]

The smoke after 140 isn't exactly wasted, but the meat itself is not

taking on anymore smoke. But you are feeding smoke to the bark.

There is a recipe in the Recipe Section by Pachanga that he likes to

smoke his brisket for 4 to 6 hours in the begining and then start

applying smoke again in the final 2 hours or so to get smoke into

the bark of the brisket. If you have ever eaten Brisket that has been

smoked in a wood burning smoker, you are getting some sorta smoke

the whole time it is being cooked. In the Bradley, I add smoke at the end

to my Briskets, but I like smoke.

[Habanero Smoker]

Keep in mind that the 140°F is the meat surface temperature, not the internal meat temperature.

[Pachanga]

I agree with CRG.

When I am standing around the campfire, I become smoke infused as do my clothes.  Like standing around the campfire, smoke is going to drift around and end up on the surface of the bark as long as smoke is present; increasing the smoke flavor and the complexity of smoke flavor that reaches the palate.

The key question as far as I am concerned in the Bradley is not so much how long to generate smoke but what type of smoke is being used and how much smoke taste is preferred by your particular palate.

Mild woods like apple are very forgiving of time spent smoking; mesquite on the other hand (speaking specifically of the Bradley) can get strong quickly.

I use mostly apple (a very mild wood), some oak and hickory and just a few pucks of mesquite.  I get a very nice smoke flavor but I am pouring the smoke to the brisket for 10 to 16 hours or more.  I could get by with a heavier flavored wood and less smoke time but that thin cloud wafting in the air is part of the smoking experience with which I grew up. This is my personal preference and is not followed by most on the board.   I use about the same amount of smoke on a 10 pound single or when smoking 40 to 50 pounds of brisket at a time.  Keep in mind that apple is a mild wood and many would recommend it for pork, chicken or even fish.  I arrived at this concoction over time by experimenting with different mixes and times.  It was not a decision I took lightly.

I was born and raised in West Texas where mesquite was the wood of choice because it was readily available (all over the ground or still standing dead, aged and ready to go) and burned hot for long periods.  A little mesquite  can go a long way but a pickup load can be gathered in just a few minutes.  An all day smoke was punctuated by shooting the occasional stray dove and adding it to the pit after stuffing it with a jalapeno.  Shotguns, coon dogs and bird dogs were discussed.  The best brand of pickup was argued and mesquite vs oak or hickory was the subject of much debate.  As the smoke rose and beer flowed the arguments got louder; friends became not so friendly and the wives would come out of the kitchen to settle the argument by threatening to remove all alcohol from the premises (that quickly lowered voices).  The debate continues to rage but mesquite is still the top wood in West and South Texas as is oak in the Hill Country and East Texas.  ( I am sure it would have been reversed if oak and mesquite native growing regions had been different)  I preface my following statements with this story to assure you that I bear no malice to mesquite and when I first got the Bradley, mesquite was the only wood I bought.  I wanted to use mesquite because it was the top of woods as far as I was concerned.  Mesquite was spiritual and using anything else would be sacrilege.

Stipulating to the above thoughts, I would still caution you on the use of all mesquite in the Bradley.  I tried the Bradley mesquite and found it to be very strong, somewhat bitter and not at all what I was used to.  Others on the board have made similar comments.  You must remember that in stick burners, open pits and all manner of smoking methods using raw wood, the wood is normally burned to coals before smoking the meat and very little smoke is emitted compared to the actual burning of the wood.  The chemical properties of the two types of smoke differ greatly.  This lighter smoke is on the brisket for 12 hours or so because the coals are also the cooking heat.  12 hours is a typical time it takes to smoke a brisket in a stick burner.

I would suggest that for shorter smoke generating times to use oak and hickory and over time build up to more mesquite pucks until you achieve the desired flavor.  I do believe that some mesquite adds to a more complex flavor and I always throw in a few pucks here and there to add flavor and pay homage to fond memories.

For me, I will continue to burn mild wood for longer periods out of tradition and for the complex taste achieved.  I may be foolishly burning money but that is my preference. 

Following is an excerpt from To Mop or Not to Mop – That is the Question
http://forum.bradleysmoker.com/index.php?topic=14240.0

"As I conclude these thoughts, I realize, maybe as important, the whole process makes me feel like I am contributing to the tradition of barbeque.  Tending the fire, smelling the smoke, judging the condition of the meat and mopping at just the right time is a deep need that started with the hunter tending his hard earned kill in a far off time under a starry sky.  That ancient primal need is answered by a not so judicious use of time that becomes time well spent.    It is the culmination of the hunt; where a suit and tie are unwelcome.  The hunt may be a ten mile walk in grassy fields carrying a shotgun, a long successful stalk in the mountains, a stringer of fish or it may be the end of a long week at work.  It is time shared with private thoughts, bird dogs, long laughs, a bottle of brew and true compadres."

Others may disagree but this is my experience and opinion.  That's why they make chocolate and vanilla.

See you around the pit,

Pachanga

[Sailor]

For the last 2 years the only rub that I use on my Briskets is Jan's Rub.  I just apply the rub to the meat and don't use any base such as mustard or olive oil.  Just sprinkler the rub on and rub it in and throw it in the smoker with internal temp of 225.  I am a big fan of Hickory and use 3 to 4 hrs of Hickory smoke and then just let it go until the flat is fork tender. 

That Jan's rub sure makes some good grub!  Good luck with your Brisket.

[ChubbyBadnews]

Thanks for all your comments, folks :)

Think I will smoke for 7 hours and just use the oven for the last 3 or 4. I am gonna go mostly apple for the duration but will be putting 3 Mesquite pucks in there but spaced out by a couple of hours each.

Thanks again for the tips.

@ Pachanga,
I have read alot of your posts on this forum and found them very helpful and interesting.

A tip of the cap to you, good sir!

Thanks

[Pachanga]

ChubbyBadnews,

Thank you for the kind comments and for taking the time to read my posts.

If you are going to use the oven, consider that the oven will not provide the benefits of the moist heat in the Bradley unless other provisions are made.  I leave my smokes naked in the Bradley 100% of the time unless I am using specialty methods such as barbeque braised techniques; i.e. beef cheeks for barbacoa. 

The Bradley is an amazing smoker and will produce stick burner style brisket with a righteous bark all by itself.

Your call.  Again, that's why they make chocolate and vanilla.

Good luck and slow smoking,

Pachanga

[STLstyle]

Hey Pachanga, do you think cooking a full load of briskets or mix of ribs / brisket produces better results than a solo brisket?

My brisket flat is always too dry for my scorecard!

Seems I can't get to fork tender before its dried out.  Tough cut to get perfect...

Thanks!


Sent from my iPhone

[Pachanga]

STLstyle,

The short answer is it certainly doesn't hurt to have load.

Now for the long answer.

I grew up in oil country.  That means a lot of heavy metal and welder availability.  My first swing set was made from some slim hole drill pipe,  It is still standing a half century later.  Consequently, everyone had a homemade smoker in the backyard but mainly the design was fire in one end and a stack on the other.  As a kid I hung around offsets and barrel smokers with lone briskets being the fare.  I have had some fine briskets off of them.  For the pachangas, a long offset was in order and a lot of meat was placed on it.  Usually there was a high rack and a low rack with meat being moved around a lot.  Again, some fine eats.

I first started paying attention to uprights when in college.  I slipped into a little smoke joint several times a week and pestered the proprietor.  He had an up right consisting of brick firebox below and a metal cabinet above.  The cabinet had two massive doors that went from waist high to above a man's head.  When those doors were opened with a full load of briskets, a cloud would emerge.  At first I thought it was smoke but then figured out it was mainly moisture and vaporized fat drippings.  As I have previously stated, barbeque is not smoked over wood being burned, it is cooked over the coals with a light smoke coming off of them for long periods of time with the coals being refreshed occasionally.

Now this was interesting to me.  Where did this cloud  come from.  There wasn't any water in the smoker other than a bucket of mop which was mostly oil.  The answer was it was coming from the brisket; that was the only source.  I watched as the meat self basted; the lower briskets coming off for the early lunch crowd and the top ones being moved progressively downward for the late comers.  The top briskets were dripping down onto the lower ones did not go unnoticed.  This was a passive self mopping machine.

Now I am not saying the pit boss was lazy but he wasn't looking for any more work than necessary to feed the crowds with his brisket and sausage plates.  He wasn't constantly moving briskets and flipping them. He let the pit do the work.

I have been partial to uprights (vertical) ever since.

The Bradley fits that bill for me now.

Loading the Bradley up does several things in my opinion; self-basting, forces low and slow and produces moisture laden with vaporized fat.  Except for the bottom brisket, all briskets have a brisket heat shield protecting the flat from direct heat. Alternating the points further lowers the heat hitting the flat above.

Loading is a variable, but only one.  And, as previously stated, I have had some fine loner brisket out of a barrel smoker and out of the Bradley.  I wouldn't load the Bradley up just to get the benefits of loading unless it is in the normal course of business.  That said, I think it is a waste of smoke to barbeque less than two briskets.  They freeze well and heat up like they were just out of the pit.

Understand that a dry end of the flat is common; especially if packer cuts with thin flats are all that is available.  Remember that this is not really a moisture problem as much as it is a fat problem.  The moist mouth feel is provided by fat; not water.

A few thoughts and techniques that might improve your scorecard. 

Start at the store. Look for thicker flats.  I like a more compact 10 to 12 lb. pounder packer cut as opposed to a long thin one.  They cook more evenly.  Look for a decent fat cap in the flat area.

Bring the meat temp up before placing in the smoker by leaving it on the counter for a while.  This will even out the internal temperature heat rise somewhat.

If you are consistently experiencing dryness through most of the flat as opposed to the first few slices of a thin tongue of the flat, pull the brisket sooner.  The flat should still have some spring to it when pushed down with tongs.  I am a fork tender at the tip of the flat smoker but the brisket talks to you in more than one way. Somewhere on this board, I have written about the interrogation of a brisket through torture.

Fork tender for me is when the fibers at the tip of the tongue of the flat first start to break apart easily when twisted with a fork.  The flat should still have some spring in it. A probe should slip easily into the middle of the flat about 1/3 of the way towards the point. Pull it and FTC it.  If you wait for fork tender further into the flat, that's over done.  The rest of the flat will get to fork tender during the FTC resting period. 

Smoke at a lower temp.  Again, this will give the point a chance to catch up with the flat.

Replace the water bowl with a half size steam table aluminum pan.  Fill with boiling water.  Empty the oil out halfway through the smoke and continually monitor the water level.  Refill with boiling water, never letting it go empty.

Raise the brisket up one rack or flip the rack which will be in-between the two rack positions.  It is better to start out too high in the smoker than too low.  I rarely use the lower rack for the brisket.  The direct heat level in this position is too harsh.

Place a double foil heat shield on a rack under the flat of the brisket leaving the point to full heat.  To keep the foil in place, you can place it between two racks.  I would flip the rack so the foil is closer to the brisket.  You could make this into a water bowl for the flat.  Refill with cool water to micro manage the flat temp while the point is rising.

Mop the tongue, just the tongue, with a cool mop.  That will slow the cooking time of that portion of the meat so the rest can catch up.  Less fat will be rendered out of the flat.  At he same time, mop the point with a hot mop.

Fat side down on a bottom brisket and don't trim any fat cap off of the flat. 

Use a mustard slather.

Basically, think through the problem and adjust the variables.

If it is still dry, not to worry.  When you slice the brisket, dribble a little melted butter or fat dripping from the brisket on the dry slices to add that fat back for a moist mouth feel.

Still not satisfied.  Cut that couple of inches off and reserve it.  Throw that in a food processor with the fattiest part of the point.  Pulse a couple of times and you will have the best chopped brisket sandwich known to man.  Again, you have added the fat back.  I usually butter and toast a bun on a flat top or cast iron skillet while heating the chopped brisket on the same flat top.  The fat rendering and blending with the meat is very apparent.

I am sure I left a lot of better advice out.  There are a lot of accomplished smokers on this board that may chime in with their "secrets" that will help more than any technique my feeble brain may conjure up.

The main point is that the Bradley is capable of producing brisket equal to or better than any big iron pit with minimal effort (an important consideration for us lazy smokers).  Don't be discouraged, just adjust the variables.

Good luck and slow smoking,

Pachanga

[Caneyscud]

Ya'll are saying it well! 

Pachanga - I had some great redfish experiences last year.  - Firsts for me - Topwater reds, reds on crankbaits, topwater flounder, and crankbait specs.  Fun stuff.  Guide said no fly rods - but this year going back with a 8 wt and showing him how to maneuver the boat. 

[STLstyle]

Great advise!  Thanks again.  I'll continue my quest to produce a worthy brisket.  Hopefully there will be a quality money shot posted very soon...


Sent from my iPhone

[Pachanga]

Mr. Caneyscud, my friend,

Good to hear of your fishing escapades and long rod plans.  I am looking over Lake Arlington this morning.  There are two dozen white pelicans and a slew of gulls.  Yes, you heard it right, Lake Arlington between Dallas and Fort Worth; a long way from the coast.  They have been gliding in here for the winter for the past few years I have a notion to drop the boat today and throw amongst them when they start working the surface with the cormorants diving deep.

I always enjoy reading your witty retort in "To Mop or Not to Mop".  I was referring to some of your posts and comments on posts last night.  I cut and paste interesting Q thoughts into a Word file for review.  I started to mention them in this thread but didn't know where they were located on the board.

Keep posting.
Keep fishing and tying.
Keep Qing.
Pursue the dream.

Tu' Compadre,

Pachanga