Topic changed.. first smoke Hungry......?

mrdennisg · November 05, 2004, 10:58:21 PM

OK here's another ???

How do you figure the size of the heating element? I am wondering if my single 750watt calrod element will be enough for this monster!!!

I can easily add another element, but is it worth it?

"Inside cubit ft. devided by the total heat output.... blah, blah, blah I have no idea what I am talking about when it comes to this part.[?]

Oh by the way
I decided to use the throttle body injection housing from our Chrysler "Eagle Talon" engine. car no longer runs but it made a noble sacrifice!![8D]

mrdennisg · November 11, 2004, 03:15:15 AM

Heating element installed and wired in. Thanks to DoW-Oldman
who reminded me of the definition of kiln: I lind the bottom with 4"x91/2" kiln bricks, hoping this will keep my heat stable. still need to calculate the vent: where to install, how many to install, how to install for a double wall with insulation. As far as the drip shield looking at designing one to channel all drippings outside to a pan on the bottom. Still pushing for this Thanksgiving....hope I make it
[^][^][^]
If anyone has any input it would be very much apreciated

Name my Smoker!!!!

Oldman · November 11, 2004, 10:38:51 AM

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">If anyone has any input it would be very much appreciated<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Well you should never ask for input and have me read your request~~! LOL!

Ok I went back and looked again at your pictures. Your box looks like an older style bread proofer or food holding box. I base this thought line on the kind of latch it has to close the door. The walls look like they are double so insulation in that area should not be a problem. One small side thought is that stainless steel does not transmit heat evenly. This is why on your upper scale stainless steel cookware (pots/ pans) they all have an aluminum footing. This allows the heat from the source to transfer evenly through the stainless steel. With that said, have you thought about some sort of "forced-air" convection heating unit, or a way to move the air around inside the box? With a box as big as yours air circulation is a MUST add-on to insure that your single source of heat is applied evenly.

For example, let's say you have 8-10 trays smoking. Without air circulation you are going to have to open that box up and rotate every hour or so or the out come is not going to be good. If you don't add air circulation then you got to factor in your recovery time. The time it take to rotate 8-10 trays is going to kill a box of 200 degrees F to about 100-110 degrees F. Recovery now becomes a major factor. With all of this said and done you can see why you must have a way to move the air inside a box as big as yours. Don't fool yourself into thinking that without air flow racks 1 through 6 of 8 are going to get any heat. Think of radiant energy as water on the floor. Place a paper towel against it and it gets wet first at the edge and does not get wet in the back until the edge can hold no more water. Given how much smaller the Bradley unit is when compared to yours, I do hope you understand that we all rotate our foods when smoking a few heavier items.

Now on today's highly insulated units to get to a maximum temperature of 200 degree F in a box the size of yours it takes at least an 1100 watt unit (about 10.0 amps.) So your 750 watts is a no-go! Plus the above example is for a holding box were you place in items that are already hot. This is why you cannot open your box to rotate. To find the approximate amperage of electrical devices use the Ohms Law formula, Amps = Watts divided by Volts. Example: A 1,200 watt device at 120 volts would be 10 amps. Next, I take it the reason you want a box this big is so you can smoke a lot of food at one time. It is one thing to smoke a box full of jerky, it is entirely another to smoke 12 boston butts.

I have purchased, made or stolen just about every kind of smoker that is out there, and I've worked food service in my youth so I have an understanding as to this type of box. If I was building this unit and all I had to work with was 120 volts then I would make sure to max-out the amps to 19. Or frankly I don't think it will get hot enough when under a full load of foods. There are several posting here concerning attaining the higher end temperature with the Bradley unit. I suspect these are from folks in cooler climates than mine. Some of the solution to this problem is don't open the box!
Your box looks like it has 3 1/2 to 4 times the capacity of the Bradley, and as such you are going to have to address amps and air flow or you may very well find that that under a full load of heavy meats you have more box than power. (The Brandly heating unit is 500 watts, or 4.16 amps.)

Next the smoking generator uses 125 watts or about 1.5 amps. That leaves 17.5 amps to heat the box and move the air. Furthermore, I would use a forced air heating system with a washable filter to capture the oils from the smoke so they would not contaminate the heating system, rather than radiant heat with a fan.

Frankly, I have given thought to building a box like yours. However, if I did not make it 220 volts I would consider using a forced gas air unit to heat the box. Using 19 amps for 8-16 hours is going to push the breaker and your wiring better be at least ten gauge. I'm not saying it cannot be done on a 120 volts system. What I'm saying is what I said before: Under a full load you may find you have more box than power.

Anywho, these are my thoughts concerning this type of unit. Don't you wish you had not asked LOL [:D]
Olds

MallardWacker · November 11, 2004, 02:12:38 PM

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by DoW-Oldman
 I have purchased, made or stolen just about every kind of smoker that is out there, <hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

That's what happens to a hard core smoker that is addicted to epicurean odors of smoldering wood mingled with essence of meat. I know how it starts. First you find yourself hanging around your "friends" that have smokers then you take the slippery slope in buying your own. Then you start with [8)]Hickory then you progress to "the [}:)]Devil's wood" Mesquite. The addiction is then complete. That's why I bought my Bradley, it is my "BONG of choice" [:p] .

MD,

These are my thoughts; I believe Olds is correct about wattage used. BUT, I would try a trial run just to see what kind of temp you can get and maintain. When you are up to heat open the door up several times over a short period and see what kind of recovery you have. It's kind of like the Bradley, there are some days I wish I could have a couple more hundred watts or so. This may be the same with your unit. When you start reaching the marks of 19amps, there plenty of household breakers that will trip at that and you will have to adjust for that. Maybe you can find a happy median somewhere

SmokeOn,

mski
Perryville, Arkansas
Wooo-Pig-Soooie

If a man says he knows anything at all, he knows nothing what he aught to know. But...

mrdennisg · November 12, 2004, 12:18:14 AM

quote:This allows the heat from the source to transfer evenly through the stainless steel. With that said, have you thought about some sort of "forced-air" convection heating unit, or a way to move the air around inside the box? With a box as big as yours air circulation is a MUST add-on to insure that your single source of heat is applied evenly.

Ok I bought a new convection oven fan. Sales guy said to install it above the heating element. Will this interfere with the smoke generator blowing at it like that ??

quote:
BUT, I would try a trial run just to see what kind of temp you can get and maintain.

I am trying the heating element I have now and have another twice as powerful on standby so this is just a test

Thanks for all the input

Name my Smoker!!!!

Oldman · November 12, 2004, 04:27:22 AM

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Ok I bought a new convection oven fan. Sales guy said to install it above the heating element. Will this interfere with the smoke generator blowing at it like that ??
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

This is an excellent question. Yes I believe if the air is blowing on the generator it will cool the burner, and that is not good. Most convection oven fans move a lot of air--if commercial. Can you send to me a picture of the fan you purchased or post one here. Next how many cubic feet of air does it move per minute (CFM)? I would also like to see your heating element as you have it installed now.

I don't believe protecting the generator from overly cooling is a big a problem. There are a couple of options you can try. One is to block any air flow from hitting the bottom of the generator. Or reverse mount the fan at the bottom so the air is blowing down on the heating element. At that point the flow would become somewhat passive moving the air up all four sides of your box. However, without knowing what your unit looks like or its CFM I really cannot offer more help at this time.

Now if you really want to get fancy about all of this you can almost balance the air flow, heat and smoke to each rack! Yepper this can be done if the there is enough CFM, but not so much as to cool the generator--if there is too much air then you would shield generator. Personally I would shield it anyway.

Here is how I would balance it all out. Take width of one of the sides and divide than number by the number of racks you will be using.

Let's say your unit is 42 inches wide, and the maximum number of racks you are going to be using is 8. 42 / 8 = 5.25. This number is then the size of the air flow diffuser you would make and install for each rack. I would make mine out of 1/8" aluminum. The total would be 2 inches by 5.25 inches. I would take the narrow side (2") and bend this piece to a 45 degree angle. Take this flange and pop rivet to the side of your box. This would direct some of the air coming up the wall into each rack's area. I would do this on all sides of the box. Next I would stager them so each flange received direct air flow and was not block by a lower flange.

Now I don't draw stick people too good, but below is an illustration of what I'm talking about.

The more you can balance the box the less you have to open it for rotation.

If I ever build another box all that I have suggested here I would do; plus my door would be triple glass so I could eye-ball the foods. As I said if it is out there I have either purchased it, made it or stole it~~!

Given what you have made todate I'm sure the fix concerning the generator is doable for you.

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">BUT, I would try a trial run just to see what kind of temp you can get and maintain.

I am trying the heating element I have now and have another twice as powerful on standby so this is just a test <hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

When you do your testing have your racks in and several bowls of water on them. This will slow you down with you rotate your racks as the idea is not to spill the water. Also the water will require calories of energy as they heat up. This will give you a better yard stick to measure your recovery time.

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Thanks for all the input<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
I'm sure I can speak for all here when saying you are welcome. I also believe we all wished we lived close enough together so we all could lay our hands on this project. [:D]

Olds

mrdennisg · November 12, 2004, 06:58:51 PM

Excelent idea about the flange directing the heat. Wife and I were just talking about using a deflector of some kind.

I am going to upload the rest of the pictures today in about 4 hours. (goin fishin)

Good idea about the glass door just can't aford it this year.
maybe I could put a peep hole like my front door has and a light in there [:o)] talk about eyballin the food ouch.......lol

It seems this is not just my project anymore but "ours"

<center>Short story:</center>
The reason I got started on this project was because of a sweet little lady by the name of Lea 87 years young. My wife and I visit her all the time one day she said she wanted to buy me a smoker so I could smoke her some smelt ; we live on the coulitz river where smelt are in abundance. I found this proof box my niebor was using as a smoker for salmon with a burner and pan in the bottom. Well I traded a generator for the box bought a smoke generator and began. Then checking my mail one day I decided to walk over across the street and introduce myself to the elderly gentalman 85 years young , who I learned his wife passed away a year earlier, he just sits in the garage alone all the time. our conversation turned to smoking, told him about Lea who is single also, he asked if I had any
"fish stakes" are they frozen? I asked (duh). He began to school me on smoking smelt gave me his smelt stakes which are 2x2's with a row little nails sticking out at a 45 degree angle for hanging smelt.

Don said I need a lot of help and since I have no idea what a fish stake was he will help me.
Now Don and Lea are getting a smoker built for them.
(and I thought it was mine...)
So that is how It got started and I introduced them and man what a cute couple now we all have something in common.

Thanks for reading this

Name my Smoker!!!!

mrdennisg · November 13, 2004, 12:51:28 AM

[:)]

Name my Smoker!!!!

Oldman · November 13, 2004, 02:33:18 AM

Thanks for the update on the photos.

Now I have a much better idea of as to where you are going with this now. Me Bad as I misunderstood your type of heating system. It looks as if the fan when installed above the heating element will not interfere with the generator. Plus the generator is somewhat shielded already at that angle.

I cannot make out the second picture and where it goes. From one point it looks like an out side cover for the motor as I can see the controls. However, at the bottom right of the picture it looks like this is a picture of two items. Please advise.

I really like the bricks. Here is a idea for heating them quickly. When possible heat them in your oven first.
Olds

mrdennisg · November 13, 2004, 03:48:41 AM

Sorry , i forgot to say what was what.

Second picture is back of unit showing confection fan.
fan is above the heating unit. I plan on putting a shield on the inside to direct heat up and not just straight to the door.

Bricks are to keep the heat stable. Remember I still have to install the insulation.

The other picture is of my backup heating unit 2 calrods totaling 1500 watt. Still just going to try the single first, second will be easy to change.

Looks like I will have to change to racks want to use slide out racks.

Name my Smoker!!!!

Oldman · November 13, 2004, 01:48:00 PM

What I'm still at a loss is what is this and where is it going to be installed? Is this an outside cover that goes over the fan motor shown in the third picture?

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">
Second picture is back of unit showing confection fan.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">Is this not the third picture that is the back of the unit showing the confection fan motor, or am I really lost here?

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Remember I still have to install the insulation.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"> I just looked back at those large pictures you e-mailed to me and realized this is a single wall box.

mrdennisg · November 13, 2004, 05:14:27 PM

let's start over. The picture u show is my home heater or as i said "my back up unit" which i said i may use if my single element unit is too small. the other is the back of my smoker showing the installed convection fan.
As far as it being a single wall smoker, I have yet to put on the outside skin and the insulation. I just want to make sure all the design and riveting is finished.

Thanks for the sugestion for the deflectors for heat. Since the fan will be on the back wall above the heat unit...I was thinking of directing the fan up , so should i put the deflectors on the back wall above the fan. I have the design for the drip tray in the shop will pick it up and show a picture of it .I think it will work great in directing the smoke and directing drippings to tray. Sorry about the size of the pictures , had my camera set wrong.

Name my Smoker!!!!

Oldman · November 13, 2004, 07:21:44 PM

OK now I understand.... looking forward to your finished item... [:I]

mrdennisg · November 19, 2004, 10:28:39 PM

Almost there I found a good look for the sideing:

Hope I am on the right track for the drip shield? The holes arent drilled yet and hope to put a drip shield on the back wall by tonight to protect the new heating element.

Here's a look at the back side of the heating element convection fan will go in above the element

Hope i am on the right track [?][?]

Looks like I may be smokin by Christmas or sooner.......

Name my Smoker!!!!

nsxbill · November 25, 2004, 04:21:38 PM

Why don't you call it "DQ." Short for Dennis BBQ, or twist on words for "The BBQ."

I have enjoyed watching your progress. What kind of seal are you using for doors? Considered a bracket to slide in to allow hanging meat while smoking...Sausage rack or Hook assembly to hang meat instead of using shelves? I have a small setup in my BS that allows skewers or hooks...very nice when you don't have to clean the shelves!

Happy Thanksgiving!

Bill