Balancing food safety and time management

[Consiglieri]

Read Old's posts about cooking eight butts and how bacteria growth is inhibited by smoke.  Not too long ago, I was trying to cook a full six rack DBS worth of ribs and found that with a 50% addition of cooking time, the ribs still weren't falling off the bone, no matter how tasty (grrrr).  I figured that my problem was twofold: (a) that much meat needed more than 2 hours to get up to room temp; (b) that much meat really inhibited the equipment's ability to get back up to target temp and maintain that heat.  Want to avoid this problem next time, but don't want to risk the trots either.  Don't know that I'll be cooking eight butts any time soon but thought this topic worth exploring. 

Knowing that you all are very an@lytical and problem solvers to boot, I'd thought I'd see if you're willing to share your opinions.  Here are my thoughts (and feel free to swing away at them):

Problem B is probably easier to deal with: preheat the box to a higher temp, and on top of that, maintain higher heat for the first few hours of cooking (at least until the maverick temps and the dbs temps are consistent in the temp spreads for some period of time).  I figure once the meat shakes it's chill, rack rotation will help as well.

Problem A is the mellon scratcher to me: How do I bring that much meat up to room temp in a safe fashion without risking bacteria? Spreading nine racks of ribs around the house so that individual racks of ribs warm up more quickly sounds okay, until you inject negative spousal implications of leaving raw meat spread out all over available counter space for a couple of hours.  Is it sufficient to compensate with higher heat after two hours at room temp, or is more help needed?  Or will putting that much cold meat into the box and applying smoke result in that over smoked flavor described elsewhere on this site as similar to a monkey's butt rubbed in an ashtray?

Thanks in advance for the opinions. 

[Gizmo]

Consig,
A week ago Friday I did a fully loaded Bradley 6 rack with 12 racks of ribs.  Pre-heated to 250+, 4 hours of smoke with a couple of rotations, temp set to max (320 deg).  Box temp did not get above 150 for the 4 hours.  After the 4 hours of smoke, I boated them an put them into the house convection oven.  No problem getting them to temp there.   With the heat element at max, you really need to rotate the racks as the bottom rack, especially back side, will really over cook if you don't.

12 racks getting to near room temp.




Fully loaded the Bradley.




Boated, ready for juice and the foil lid then into the oven.

[West Coast Kansan]

Gizmo, again, no invitation.  ;)

[Gizmo]

Sorry WCK,
My lead at work sent them out and he must have forgot to include you.  I was wondering why you didn't show up.   ;)

Once or twice a year I put on a spread for my employees.  I have a mixture of full time employees and contract labor.  Company policy does not allow us to invite them to company sponsored events (liability law suits) so I do my own.  My biggest regret was forgetting to get a picture of the Webber Ranch Grill completely loaded with Beer Can Chickens, Brats, chicken thighs and then finishing the ribs with sauce where I could.  It was the first time I had every square inch covered.

Part of the crew

[West Coast Kansan]

Giz, All is well, I was in Tucson trying to get the kids packed to move.  Ended up dislocating my knee the first morning. Would like to say I was carrying a fridge up Mt. Lemon but was actually just putting my pants on  :D  Doing well now (kinda).  Actually looks like a great party and good idea to go on your own.  Looks like a great gathering  :D

Consig, I think if I were you and did not have the equip Giz uses I would set the thing at 320, preheat like crazy with your brick and hot water (I have also added hot water to the pan the water bowl sets in as well) and let it rip - vent open 3/4 for two and a half. Rotate top to bottom and front to back - rotate the center 2 racks front to back. Give them another 2.5 hours of smoke and if the tower is not up to 200 and increasing (no door opening allowed - my apple juice sprays never seemed to matter before the smoke was done anyway) by an independent thermo located between the center racks pull them at that point. If they set out for the preheat time it should not be an issue.  I will use the finish heat to kill bugs more than I trust the meat to be clean from the store and who knows where.  Do wash hands between diaper changes though  ;D  ;D  ;D I cant think you would be done in less than 8 hours. There is always the grill for a finish tool. The bones should tell you when they are done. Meat pulling back and twist turn loosens the meat.  But then my ribs are not yet what i want anyway so what do i know.   :-X

[Consiglieri]

Okay, you got me.  Here I am reading science, and getting how it all makes sense.  Then the diaper change comes in.  (and this is a joke for those that need a prompt) Fortunately, there's always enough brandy on hand to work as sanitizer, over and above it's use as creativity lubricant and personality optimizer.

Thanks for the tips.  I think you're right about finish temp, but I'm always a bit uneasy when there's lots and lots of time, and not a lot of high heat.

Doesn't sound like the full load will be anything less than a 12 hour project and so I'll plan accordingly in the futuer.  Wonder if anyone really has tried the "inverted rack" trick.  If so, I'd really want to learn how the cook times worked out.

Happy fourth to y'all.

[Gizmo]

Just as an FYI, if you use the oven and boat like I did, I also used an oven temp of 350 for an hour or so and then dropped down to 200.  Total time was around 6 hours.  I was extremely busy with the smoked salmon dip, stuffed mushrooms, and other sides that I didn't keep a real close eye out on the times and temps let alone commit them to memory. :-\

[West Coast Kansan]

Papa Consig. A six rack with inverted racks ... yea I would like to hear about that too.  I think you and Giz are at the leading edge of light bulb smoking for ribs.  Might have better luck with a doubled up 4 rack but you already have that beat for all intents in reality.

While you are not making more babies  ;D  think about inverted racks crowded in at the botton 3 shelves of your unit.   ??? Wondering how the science of that would work being closer to the heat and more room above for the moisture to escape. I do not believe smoke circulation would be an issue. I have had every square inch of racks covered and smoke is everywhere  8)

[Consiglieri]

Giz: messed up and forgot to ask about your post (with additional Q about yourfollow up).

First: 12 racks: how did you load up?  Looks like 1.5 racks per shelf at first blush, then I see what looks like an extra half rack per shelf in back.   Am I right?  Or now that I look again it looks like a different configuration altogether.

Don't have a convection oven, but do have a gas double oven.  Maybe after the smoke's done I ought to rethink the finish cooking strategy.  When you do your boating do you still FTC, or do you rely on the boat moisture and continuous oven heat to work the same way?

[Consiglieri]

WCK and Giz: first, I have cousins in San Diego that are overdue for a visit.  If I find my way down South, would love the opportunity to share a cold one with you guys.

Now on the full load of ribs deal, I've been giving this problem a lot of thought cuz with the FTC trick you can cook a whole you know what load of ribs, wrap them up, and bring them to whatever party or occassion needs ribs.  If I can move past the mental block that all of the meat needs to be cooked in the DBS, then I think the solution presents itself.   Double up the racks (inverted) and smokem to your desired level, then transfer to the double oven, whether boated or on the bradley racks (course if I'm using the bradley racks, I'll need something below to catch the bastings). 

I realize that the indoor oven is the solution, but my rock hard head wants the "barbeque" cooking completed out of doors.  I'll get over this obstacle in 20 years or so.  Or I'll have a beer and forget the issue. :P

[Gizmo]

I started out with cutting the racks into thirds then halfs.  Just fit them as best I could, did have a little overlap on a few.  As for the FTC, the boat and oven do it just fine and hold the ribs well until you are ready to serve.  When the ribs are done, just turn off the temp and let them stay there.  Good for a few more hours at least.  The Dacor ovens hold heat in well so it will keep the ribs hot a good long while.

[Gizmo]

I started out young moving out of the bradley after the smoke was done.  Someone here had the foresight to mention the BS is just an oven after the smoke and darned if they weren't spot on.  The foil boat keeps the moisture in which tenderizes them as well.  I would not leave them bare on the racks in the oven.  You will see competition Qers foil wrap their meat as well for best results.  The boats are less susceptible to tears and leaks.

I look forward to the visit.  If you have the time, we'll have to do more than a cold one, like brisket, ribs, pulled pork, or what ever.

[West Coast Kansan]

Absolutely, would not be the first beers drank in SD - Doors open anytime.  As Gizmo suggest a cook day would be fun.

[Consiglieri]

Gentlemen, as soon as I can get the young lady and young son "comfortable" with the idea of a road trip down south (or more likely, my road trip down south) I'll PM and coordinate some times/places.  Will probably be fall or later, but still looking forward to it. 

Hope you haven't started any fires outside a pit tonight.   ;)  With all the boys on the fourth doing what boys do on the fourth, it's amazing that any of us can get homeowner's insurance.  Still love the "boom" on the fourth though. 

Looking forward to a road trip.

[Tiny Tim]

I realize that the indoor oven is the solution, but my rock hard head wants the "barbeque" cooking completed out of doors.  I'll get over this obstacle in 20 years or so.  Or I'll have a beer and forget the issue. :P

Simple solution is one that I came up with while reading all of the above, but you put the key words "out of doors" in for me to say it here.  Get an electric roaster and set it next to your Bradley.  Put a basting liquid in the bottom, set the rack in, and after the smoke permeates the ribs, throw 'em in on the rack.  Cook at whatever temp you want to, and leave the roaster outside.   Yeah, it makes it a little more difficult to rotate top to bottom so they suck up the evaporating goodness that was in the bottom, but seems worth it to me. :D