A few turkey questions...LOL

SmokinMoe · January 05, 2005, 08:46:07 PM

I thought this would be the most checked forum, so I am posting ALL of my turkey questions in this topic.
I want to smoke a turkey and have found a brine (I think) that would work. First question is: what is pickling spice made up of? If I left it out, would it be noticeable?

Second question: Do you prefer the turkey upright or horizontal? I have read the posts where there was a difference of opinion. So, what cooks the turkey to a crisp skin?

Third question: If you thaw out a turkey in the refrigerator for 3 days, brine it for 2-3 days, then put it out in the 'frig uncovered to form the sticky skin for about a day, is it going to be ok being out that long even though refrigerated until I cook it? Or is that what the brine is for? LOL

Fourth question: After I get the pellicle formed, do I still put it out on the counter for the hour before it goes in the smoker?

Fifth question: If you like it on a turkey sitter (vertical) what do you put in the turkey sitter (I have a ceramic one with a hollow middle) I don't want it to be soggy on the inside, but would you still need to put something in it?

Sixth question: If I brined it, would you still put a paste on it (saw something in Smoke and Spice) or would you just put bacon on the top rack?

Seventh question: In your water bowl at the bottom, do you use just straight water or do you put herbs in it, use wine or beer or just leave it plain? Does doing the extra stuff really make a difference?

Eighth question: I am looking for an electric firestarter. Does anyone know where I can purchase one? I can't find it doing a search.
I guess the primo oval I bought my husband for Christmas will automatically default to me since he hasn't shown an interest in it. I had to MAKE him put it together and I was the first one using it. I hate the paper method, don't want to use the liquid stuff and just want something that is easy and safe. I had a teacher-friend who got third degree burns from starting a grill and that really has me err to the cautious side of things. Well, I like the grill anyway!

Ninth question: If I brine it, do I still want to do the t-shirt method like Olds described with a turkey or is that just for a ham? If so, how do I do that again?

I know it is alot to ask and would be happy if you feel like you can take on ANY of those questions. I really would love to have some answers so that this turkey is not wasted time.
Thanks in Advance!!

Ferdbird · January 05, 2005, 09:09:58 PM

WOW! I have done a few birds but I can't cover all your questions. Here are the ones that I know.

1 & 6. I have used a brine of salt and water only. Mixed at a 1 c salt to 1 gallon of water mixture. Did this for 12 hours refrigerated. I then dried it and gave it a rub. My special turkey rub. I use my best dry rub but I place it in with a half to 3/4 cup of mayo. Mix it up and rub it all over, then smoke.

2. I have smoked them both ways and I do not see much differance. The smoke is low and slow so having the heat go accross or through the cavity did not have any differance in the outcome.

5. BEER MAN!!!!!!

SmokinMoe · January 05, 2005, 09:26:14 PM

Ferdbird,
Welcome to the forum!! I haven't welcomed you officially, so there it is!
Thanks for the answers.
Would you share your special turkey rub or is that an ancient chinese secret? LOL Also, how did you come up with mayonnaise as the part that makes it stick to the turkey? I was thinking of peanut oil.
What do you think?
Beer works for me!

MallardWacker · January 05, 2005, 10:11:23 PM

Moe,

Concerning pickiling spice, it would be this duck mans opinion to leave it in. It's fairly cheap and it smells great, you can get it at W/M. It is a compilation of a bunch of spices. It really does not do any "pickling" just a bunch of aromatic type stuff that "I" think adds good flavor. I use it instead of putting individual spices that so many brines call for. I know I have not brined that much but I would say you could get caught up in a recipe headache[V] trying to figure out which one to use. I would stick with the simplist an go from there. The primary objective to brine is the moisture content and then the flavor. The salt and sugar does takes care of the moisture issue. Let the simple spices and juices just add to the smoke and cooking method to make your bird talk[:p]. But I would try "Olds Big Time T~Shirt Method" , though I have never done it, it sure makes sence[8D].

As far as the water bowl: The BS is not like most smokers, I think it would be a waiste of time and effort to add anything to it[:(!]. I'd be more worried about the brine and smoke.

They best sugestion that I can give you is: What ever you do~DO NOT USE [}:)]MESQUITE![}:)]. There is not enough brine in the world to overcome what you will taste if you use it. Apple, Maple, Pecan intstead. I made the first turkey withis devil wood and have hated the day I done it it.

Behave yourself KIRK, there is a lot of temptations in Moe's post~I know I won't touch'em.

SmokeOn,

mski
Perryville, Arkansas
Wooo-Pig-Soooie

If a man says he knows anything at all, he knows nothing what he aught to know. But...

bsolomon · January 05, 2005, 10:24:16 PM

Wow - that's a lot of questions:

1) Pickling spice is just that - a seasoning mixture typically used in the making of pickles. If you get a jar of dill pickles, then remove the pickles and liquid, the remaining "stuff" is what is left of the pickling spices. Everyone has their own mixture, usually with mustard seed and bay leaves, but as a general idea, this from Penzeys: Hand-mixed from: yellow and brown Canadian mustard seeds, Jamaican allspice, cracked China cassia, cracked Turkish bay leaves, dill seed, Zanzibar cloves, cracked China ginger, Tellicherry peppercorns, star anise, Moroccan coriander, juniper berries, West Indies mace, cardamom and medium hot crushed red peppers. So in short, it is just a pre-mixed set of spices, so you can add it, make your own, or just add a bit more of any other spices in the mixture.

2) Vertical or horizontal with a turkey may be a preference, or you may have to go with the best way the turkey fits into the smoker. My feeling is that horizontal allows the juices to pool inside the cavity, resulting in a juicier finished product. However, the extra moisture may be detrimental to having a crisp skin. But for the most part, since you aren't going to be draining the liquid from the smoker during the smoking process, this probably doesn't matter much. Crisp skin in general is a complex issue, but it seems the consensus for best results includes a long air drying period, especially after brining, a fairly wide open vent to allow most of the mositure out, and a higher finishing temperature - as the bird approaches your desired internal temperature, increase the cabinet tempertaure to max for the last part of the cooking process.

3) Both the cold of the refrigerator and the brining process act as preservatives, so you shouldn't have any problems with a week in the fridge before smoking (other than needing the space for something else...)

4) Air drying and pellicle formation have to do with texture of the finished product (i.e., crisp skin in this case). Pulling the bird out of the fridge before placing it in the smoker is done as a simple matter of physics: the colder the item is when placed in the smoker, the longer it will take to smoke. this is especialy a concern with the Bradley because of the relatively small heating elements, and therefore the slow recovery time to heat loss. all you are trying to do is get the bird closer to the smoker temperature before you put it in. Brining in this case helps alleviate any fears of the poultry sitting out at kitchen temperature too long. For the most part, I pull the meat out of the fridge and then plug in the smoker. After it has preheated for an hour, you are ready to put the meat in and start smoking.

5) I haven't used a hollow turkey sitter, just a wire vertical rack. I suspect you can put whatever flavoring items you want in their, but since you are smoking it, that is your key flavoring component (as opposed to oven cooking) so I probably wouldn't bother.

6) Brining is done here for three purposes - one, to keep moisture in the finished product; two, as a by product of part one, the osmosis and diffusion can impart flavorings into the meat (i.e., when the salt moves in, so do the other components of the brine); and three, it acts as a preservative. If you like the amount of flavoring imparted by your brine, you are not required to add any additional flavorings, but most people will say that brine flavorings tend to be subtle, and rubs and pastes tend to be far bolder. for this reason, most people will brine, and still add a rub or a paste, both on the skin, and underneath for maximum possible flavor.

7) As opposed to a true water-smoker, like a Brinkman, where the water is boiled off in an effort to keep the cooking chamber temperature low and even, the Bradley really only relies on the water bowl to extinguish the bisquettes as they fall of the conveyor. A water smoker boils off a large amount of liquid during the cooking process, so using that as a flavoring mechanism works fairly well. The Bradley doesn't really boil off too much water during the process, so flavorings there are not very effective, except to make your burned bisquettes happier in their final resting place[:D].

8) Electronic fireplace starter - your on your own there.

9) I don't think brining or not brining has anything to do with Oldman's T-shirt method. It is also not exclusively for ham. Here is one where he used the T-shirt on a chicken with excellent results: http://www.bradleysmoker.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=955

Hope this helps and good luck with your turkey.

nsxbill · January 05, 2005, 10:54:06 PM

I believe bsolomon answered your questions pretty well. You already know about BBQ-Guru...you have a guru you bought from Fred. He also markets a propane torch adaptor to light charcoal I have heard it works pretty well.

http://www.thebbqguru.com/guru_golf_club.htm

I am sure you will find what you want here as a result of simple Google search. Go to Google.com and type in electric charcoal lighter. There are many sites listed.

Bill

SmokinMoe · January 06, 2005, 12:09:40 AM

Can I just say you guys are awesome? My jaw is still dropped from the response. Could it get any better than this?
Dinner is on Sunday around lunch-time, give or take an hour or so.
Thanks for all the answers!! I will let you know how it goes.
Just had steaks on the new primo. I rubbed them with a rub about 3 hours prior (next time I will do it for a longer period) and cooked them at 400 degrees. What a grill. It held the temp and was great. I can't stand opening the lid, I get all smoked out even with burping it and opening the top vent. Oh well, no gas grill taste on those puppies. Woo hoo, I think quing is my new thing!!

SMOKEHOUSE ROB · January 06, 2005, 02:07:33 AM

SmokinMoe is this what you are looking for? http://amos.shop.com/amos/cc/main/ccn_search/st/electric%20%20charcoal%20starter/sy/productsx/ccsyn/260/prd/16545092/ccsid/305941894-3478/ga/1/adtg/01040536

SMOKEHOUSE ROB · January 06, 2005, 02:19:07 AM

have you trid a Chimney Starter. they work very well. http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/B00004U9VV/qid=1104977639/sr=1-2/ref=sr_1_2/103-1822053-8331861?v=glance&s=garden

JJC · January 06, 2005, 02:50:08 AM

Hi Moe,
Don't have a lot to add on this topic--bsolomon and Duck-man are right on the money. The only points I would emphasize or have a slightly different opinion on are: 1) definitely use the Olds T-hirt method with turkey. I did a side-by-side comparison and it makes a significant difference in taste and texture; and 2) try using apple juice with a couple chunks of onion in it instead of plain water in the waste bowl. I know this is a bit different than the other advice you have received, but my subjective opinion is that it does make a slight difference in flavor. When you open the BS to change the liquid in the bowl, you smell a definite apple/onion aroma. I assume this somehow affects the meat flavor, but it's only my opinion . . .

John
Newton MA

nsxbill · January 06, 2005, 03:49:42 AM

Hey Moe!

I noted that you title had the LOL after the title....do I detect some reluctance to ask the questions you asked? Hope not... the stupid question is the unasked one! The last turkey I did had the bacon dripping down during the duration of time the bird was horizontal on the shelf.. Someone noted that the juice building up inside the bird enhanced flavor.. hadn't thought about that before.

I am going to do some chicken on the vertical racks I just purchased to give them a try. They have little bowls under them to catch drippings I want to see how much I get. The beer can chicken might do well in your egg, because the temp is higher and you are baking and smoking, but I don't know if the beer would make a difference in a Bradley.

Bottom line don't be shy about posting up questions. The diverse experience of our fellow smokers' responses helps us all learn new stuff. Thinking back the bacon wrapped breasts post was simple; we all had fun with it, and ultimately I tried something new..

The list is great isn't it!

Bill

SmokinMoe · January 06, 2005, 01:43:41 PM

Smokehouse Rob,
Yes, thank you, that is exactly what I THOUGHT I needed. Then, I found another message board where they were all over this MAPP gas thing. Now, I think I will get the thing Bill mentioned from the BBQ Guru guys. Everyone on this green egg site was singing its praises.
What a wealth of information you guys are.

Bill, I put LOL on the subject line because I said I had a "few" questions and there was something like 9 or 10 in there!!

I can't find a food-grade bucket, so I was wondering if I could put my brine and turkey in a plastic garbage bag and put that in a regular bucket. Or, will Walmart have something to put it in like a big rubbermade something or other?

Good thing I am just plowing on with this project. My husband keeps saying "stick with the Boston Butt, you know what you are doing with that" What confidence he instills in me!! LOL But, if I fail with the turkey, big deal, I got it very cheap from the holiday sales. I will keep you updated.

Anyone looking for a ceramic turkey sitter can find it pretty cheap at Bass Pro Shop on their online store. It was only $14.99 plus $3.95 shipping which is still cheaper than I have seen it anywhere else.

Bill,
Where did you get these vertical racks you were talking about?
I might smoke this turkey and cook it in the bradley and then take it out when it is done and put it in the primo if the skin isn't crispy. Just depends on how it looks I guess.

nsxbill · January 06, 2005, 01:57:26 PM

Good Morning Moe!

Here is a link to the vertical roasters. Looks like they are still on sale. I bought 3. They must have done well with them. I ordered on Dec 7, and they are not due to arrive until tomorrow. Long wait. They did send me a note that there would be a 2 week delay. Hope the wait is worth it. They look good and I think I can get 2 in on one shelf.

http://kitchenhomegadgets.com/vivechro618.html

You have to tell the old man that pork butt is just the tip of the smoking iceburg. Like a lot of things [:D] expirementation is good [:I]!

Give us a report on the turkey when you can.

Bill

Habanero Smoker · January 06, 2005, 02:07:26 PM

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by SmokinMoe
 I can't find a food-grade bucket, so I was wondering if I could put my brine and turkey in a plastic garbage bag and put that in a regular bucket. Or, will Walmart have something to put it in like a big rubbermade something or other?
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
Moe,
I've been trying to get 5 gallon and 3.5 gallon food grade buckets, but the people who keep promising to give me some, keep forgetting and get rid of them before I have a chance to get them.

Garbage bags are not food grade either. You would be better off using turkey roasting bags, but double them up. If you use this tecnique, when you double up the bags put the turkey and brine in one bag and twist tie it. Then put that in the second bag and twist tie it. This should keep it from leaking, and this way you can lay it horizontally in the refrigerator, as a precaution place it in a pan, in case the bag leaks. If you have more ingredients in your brine then salt and sugar, every so often stir up the ingrediants a little, by turning the turkey over a few times. I find the easiest way to add the brine to the turkey, is once you put the turkey in the first bag, set that in a bucket to help keep it up right while you add the brine.

SMOKEHOUSE ROB · January 06, 2005, 02:33:04 PM

for a food grade bucket, go to some of your fast food restuants and ask for there pickel buckets, have one in town , that will sell them for $1.50 with the lid.