temperature controller

RJR1876 · September 02, 2005, 06:20:01 AM

What bother me is that most cheap fans (including computer fans) are not fully enclosed, and smoke deposit on the coil will lead to malfunction even short circuit. In addition, if you hot smoke, I just wonder if the plastic fan blade can stand up the heat. That's why I'm waiting to see Old's invention. Recyyling the smoke is a good idea, and we don't even have to cut another hole, just add a T-junction at the original openning for the generator. BTW, is aluminium safe to use as piping?

Regards,
Tai

Oldman · September 02, 2005, 10:20:20 AM

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Olds,

Very interesting...when will u put it out in the market? Or you can share with us the design?

Regards,
Tai<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">I'm not marketing this item. Chez is. He has only had the prototype about 2 weeks. It takes time to ramp up for production. <blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">here is an idea. how about putting a fan on top or to replace the vent controll... an old computer fan may do. the reason i say that most are made out of plastic and if done right you can keep the motor away from the smoke<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"> You have me totally lost here. All computer fans are muffet fans. They are flow though. It would be great if a muffet fan could be used. I spent much time looking into this and there are no muffet fans that will work for us. If you are thinking of placing the muffet fan so it pushes from the top at vent into the box you got 2 problems. First outside air is introduced killing the box temp. Next the only place then for the smoke to exit is via the generator. <blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">I'm new here and new to the bradley. I haven't even cooked with it yet but this is the topic I was hoping to find. I'm wondering if anyone has considered using the fan externally and piping the hot air back in between the grates. Seems horrible to do this (cut holes in the side) but I think it might be the best way to keep the heat even. A single fan inside will probably be blocked with a full load of food on the racks. If I do this I'll change my username to uglysmoker<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">First you will lose much heat doing this way. Remember the main element in the box is only 500 watts. Next from what I think you are saying is your are going to circulate the air out of the box into a set up piping and you will have an in-line fan. What fan/ motor are you going to be using that can handle the heat? (I will address this problem more below.) Now the way this fan works a full load will not block the circulation. This has to do with angles. Plus the heat is like water. It seeks out an equilibrium.<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">What bother me is that most cheap fans (including computer fans) are not fully enclosed, and smoke deposit on the coil will lead to malfunction even short circuit. In addition, if you hot smoke, I just wonder if the plastic fan blade can stand up the heat. That's why I'm waiting to see Old's invention. Recyyling the smoke is a good idea, and we don't even have to cut another hole, just add a T-junction at the original openning for the generator. BTW, is aluminium safe to use as piping?

Regards,
Tai<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"> Ok any static pressure against the generator and the smoke will go back into the generator and exit around it. This smoke will leave an oil. A few times and those oils will turn into a tar and at that point your generator gums up and you might very well end up purchasing a new generator. Yes Aluminium is safe to use. However, if any smoke is piped through it and if that piping goes outside the box then you must factor in that aluminium is an excellent heat sink, and you will lose much heat.

<hr noshade size="1">Now to address some common thoughts I've seen in this thread.
1. All electric motors that I know of cannot be operated where the ambient air temp. is greater than 105F. The exception is some muffet fans will go to 170 F.
2. There are plastic fan blades that can with stand higher temp, but not the upper range 250-300 F that I could find. Plus as I state in #1 above no motor can. (Maybe NASA has such a motor, but I don't think you can find one and even if you did it would cost you an arm and a leg to purchase it.)
3. It does not matter if the motor is completely sealed as in explosion proof you are still limit to 105 F ambient air temp..
4. You create to much CFM and then the static pressure of it will force the smoke back out the generator. You defuse that CFM so it does not hit the Generator and you have ruined the air flow.

Now I believe when Chez markets this item it will be affordable. It will take about an hour to install it. Yes you will have to drill some mounting holes.

In this first picture below you can see when I opening the door how the smoke does not exit the box at the generator but is being pulled to the back of the box. The door here had been opened for a good minute before I took this picture.

Now contrast the above image with this one where there is no fan. You will see the smoke exit at the generator.

This is a balancing act. To much circulation and you have problems with the generator. Not enough circulation and nothing has been accomplished.

Rather than go through all of the hassle I went through again, when Chez does market this I'm going to purchase two from him for friends rather than make them myself.

Those that are new to this topic, I put this together for the members. I did it so Chez could offer something the eBay whores don't have. I'm now out of the loop. I'm not making one thin dime on this. Yes anyone with time can do what I did. However, what I did is the only way to create the correct amount of CFM, address the the limitations of ambient air, not lose a rack to a fan blade and I did this for the most part with off the shelf items to keep the cost down as low as possible.

EDIT: It just came to me that a competitor of Chez's may very well be ghosting here. As such I have pulled all images and information from earlier postings concerning this matter.

If anyone has questions I will only be able to supply general information. I sure those who know me will understand. Those that don't there is nothing more I can add... sorry~~!

Olds

CLAREGO · September 02, 2005, 01:42:25 PM

im saying to suck out the air flow not keep it in. i just thought if the fan is sucking the air out you would have even heat through the cabinet.
clarence

CLAREGO · September 02, 2005, 01:46:22 PM

by the way olds i should of known there muffet fans

RJR1876 · September 02, 2005, 08:35:28 PM

Dear friend,

Please tell what's a muffet fan? I did a search, and all I got is "Miss Muffet Fans Club"[8D]

Regards,
Tai

Oldman · September 02, 2005, 08:44:03 PM

Muffet is a slang for this type of fan:

Olds

Arcs_n_Sparks · September 03, 2005, 02:45:55 AM

Actually, the correct term is "muffin" fan. However, with all the smoke around this forum, muffet is close enough.[8D]

Arcs_n_Sparks

w3bcy · September 03, 2005, 04:40:23 PM

Thanks, Olds, for your wonderful answer to the many questions regarding the fan issue. I totally understand that someone may try to take your ideas and run with them while all the while you have asked Chez to bring this to the market.

Personally, as a newbie, I look forward to learning more as the fan becomes available to us BS folks.

W3BCY
Barney

Oldman · September 03, 2005, 07:46:15 PM

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Actually, the correct term is "muffin" fan. However, with all the smoke around this forum, muffet is close enough.

Arcs_n_Sparks<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">Hey Muffin is what I put jam on...

W3BCY
Barney,
Believe me once Chez get this out it will have been worth the wait. Also the fan is only part one of my plan to turn the bradley into the cat's meow... however, things at work are really out running the guys and I will be back in the field soon at night and part two will take a back seat until this levels out.

Oh well it better than being unemployed.

Olds

car54 · September 03, 2005, 09:24:28 PM

I have just set up my controller from Cold Fusion, after buying it 2 months ago. It works great! I have been playing with it all day at different temperatures and there is very little deviation. Later on today I am going to smoke a pork butt and I will report the results of the controller.

Brad

Oldman · September 03, 2005, 10:42:23 PM

Brad,

How did you mount it? If you got it worked out then I'm not going to worry with part 2 as you have it. My idea was to put one together that was a stand a lone unit so members would not have to worry with cutting anything and wiring it.

If yours works there are other ideas I have I would rather work on. Not all are smoke related. One of them is a blending of the best of all relevent cleanings systems into one unit. Of course I could not sell it as I would be stepping on someone's patent but the idea is to make them for my own company. To be more than just one step better than the next company. In fact at the moment I've got a couple of hundred hours now in its design. I know I can pull it off. If I can do it under 5K then I will have the cat's meow of commercial carpet cleaning units. [^] In the gaming world it would be called a kick arse unit~~!

Hopefully your unit will do all that you hope it will do. Perhaps, you and Chez can link up and bring it to the members at an affordable price. That would be great! You could very well become our hero~~! Personally I just happy about the fan... and someone else doing this next project works for me.

Please keep us in the loop~~! And thanks for this heads up! I'm looking forward to your next posting [:p]

EDIT: BTW when I talked with Cold Fusion on the phone they offered, once I had the prototype made, to looking into manufactering the whole deal at a fair price.... just something to think about.

This is the idea I shared with cold fusion. They felt at that time that making them would not be a problem. Pehaps you and chez can work with them. I don't know as they may require a huge order....

Olds

Kamanodental · September 04, 2005, 07:11:05 PM

Aloha Brad
Im new to the forum and need info.. I noticed or read that you purchased a temp controller. I would like to know how you hooked up your controller and if you could send this novice a diagram. I orderd a Bradley and have a 20lb Sausage Maker smoker given to me by my son. So I am thinking of buying one for each. But electricity scares the hell out of me. So amy help you can supply to me will be great. I will trade you pineapples for a diagram...lol Is that your diagram in this post? Hmmmm just confused.

Mahalo
Kamano (Joe)

Onipaa/Ku'oko'a
Steadfast Freedom

car54 · September 05, 2005, 04:55:05 AM

It is 11:00 PM and the the pork finally reached 190 degrees. That is 27 and 1/2 hours of smoking and cooking. The controller worked faultlessly More reports tommorrow. I'm tired , the pork is being FTC and then I have to pull it.

Brad

car54 · September 05, 2005, 03:06:26 PM

The controller worked great. Once it reached the target temperature it kept it there, very occasionally you would see a + - of 1 degree. It took 27 1/2 hours for 16 pounds of pork butt. I beleive it took so long because there were no temperature spikes.

The controller worked great. Once it reached the target temperature it kept it there, very occasionally you would see a + - of 1 degree. It took 27 1/2 hours for 16 pounds of pork butt. I believe it took so long because there were no temperature spikes.

When you first use the controller or when you open the Bradley door and the temps. go down the controller seems to go through a learn cycle. Initially it goes about 10 degrees high, then 10 degrees low and then it homes in on the target temp. and stays there.

Olds, your drawing is correct. When the fan comes into production you could permanently mount the thermo coupler through the side of the Bradley.

I am also going to try the controller in my Primo grill with a BBQ Guru blower.

Brad

Arcs_n_Sparks · September 05, 2005, 03:53:57 PM

With an on/off controller (versus a PID controller), you will get the excursions noted due to hystersis around the setpoint and overall control loop behavior.

Arcs_n_Sparks